tv Book Discussion on Crisis of Character CSPAN August 28, 2016 11:00am-11:49am EDT
passionate book group i'm pleased to introduce gary byrne, author of coming. as i clicked are impressive. he served in federal law-enforcement for nearly 30 years and the u.s. air force security police, uniform division of secret service and most recently as a federal air marshal. while serving as a secret service officer, he protected bill clinton and first down in the white house. i know from the office of bill clinton's chief staff included praise of gary byrne. your knowledge of the oval office, the president of the presidency is enviable. because of his dedication, duty and mentality, he was unofficially dubbed mayor of the west wing by his colleagues. and 1995, he received an evaluation from his superiors in the secret service praise him as a mature and dependable employee who is a well informed member a consistent performance of these and highly efficient and conscious manner. in march 1996 the secret service issued a letter of communication
of professionalism and the knowledge display but officer byrne. iin july 1986 received a letter of appreciation from the secret service force commitment, dedication and professional performance. because of his direct knowledge and access to the clintons, including being a sign outside the oval office for three years, he was subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury during the monica lewinsky scandal. in 1999 he received a certificate of appreciation from the secret service for outstanding support of our protected mission during the nato summit in washington, d.c. he served as a for our marshal until his retirement in july 2016. he has been praised -- not july. he has been praised by the acting director of the federal air marshal marshal service fors distinct career, commitment and contributions to the site professional law enforcement department. he spent much of his time in the white house also trying to protect the clintons from the own worst impulses. during this closely fought
presidential election when questions of character and temperament have become paramount, his best selling book will provide evidence for those who question whether hillary clinton has the temperament and character to serve as commander-in-chief. and now i'd like to welcome gary byrne. [applause] >> wow thank you for coming. how much did they pay you? i greatly appreciate you coming. something to tell you a little bit about myself. i was actually born in -- excuse me. [inaudible] yes. i was born in ridley park pennsylvania. i grew up rob like most everybody else. i have two parents, went to school. i'm satisfied with the military. we move down to virginia in the early '70s and all our neighbors in the virginia area were all military, marines on air force,
officers, arm army officers andi was a state with the military. and the first day i saw my neighbor coming out in these uniform, i knew i was hurt. writing the book, "crisis of character" was needless to say extremely hard. i never thought i would take, is for sure that the things that i saw and witnessed that i would take, you know, with me on my death. but i decided a couple years ago that it was important that the american people know exactly how, what i witnessed when i worked in the west wing and what i saw in the secret service. at some point i decided a couple years ago i was going to have to tell this story. with the help of some really good friends i was able to do that.
i am grateful for everybody's help, our publisher and my friends that have helped me, and my agent, javelin and the publisher, excuse me, hachette. so what brings me today, i'm grateful for you guys coming and hopefully purchasing the book and listening to me. the main thing i want you to understand about my book when you get a chance to read it is the people that do those jobs, they are good, dedicated people. and it's not easy to do quite the jobs that they have to do sometimes. and what really drove me, i'm catching my breath, what really drove me to write the book was, as i said before, i want the american people to know what the clintons are really like. and i want you to understand
that it doesn't matter if they were democrats or republicans. if the republicans in the behave like that, god as my witness, i would be telling the same story. it's the truth. it's my life, and, obviously, i had a hard time writing it, but i did. so let me go back to my life a little bit when i was younger. born in pennsylvania come lived in virginia, joined the air force in 19. went to lackland air force base and then to turkey. i live in turkey for about a year. i loved it. my mother mother's side of the y is lebanese, so the food was pretty similar, which was nice. i had a good time there. and then we ha had a good missin typically work with the turkish military. i came back, i was stationed at langley air force base down in virginia. that was great because us close to the area i live when i was going up. so i got to hang out with some
childhood friends and that was a nice time. they were going to college and i was in the air force. and a bunch of my friends and i, we got an apartment together and we had a good life your and then i got out of the air force and i was looking for a job. and i got a job for a short period of time with the boeing helicopter company up in pennsylvania outside of philadelphia. i was building a graph for couple of years. then one day my wife saw this advertisement in the paper. she said, did you ever hear the secret service uniformed division? i said no, i never heard of it. i heard of the secret service. when i got out of the air force i contacted them and they said you have to have a college degree. i said that's not what to work. i went to work at boeing, something so boeing were slowing down and so i filled out this application for the secret service uniformed division. it took about six months and i finally got a phone call back. it took me two and a half years
to get to the point where they did in a background check what they thought i was a reliable person. so then they started, you know, giving the tests. you have to give urine tests and a polygraph test. the polygraph test to be five and half hours. yeah. you would think after five hours that would've given up, so i finally got through that. the next thing i knew i was down in beltsville maryland learning to be a police officer for the secret service. went to georgia or about eight weeks and then back to maryland to finish that my training. and the next thing you know i was at the white house. it was very special. the first family that i protected was george herbert walker bush and his family. and it was really nice. it was a lot of fun. they were really nice people.
in hindsight i will tell you that they set me up for a really big shock when the next administration came in. so without sounding too derogatory, which i guess that ship has already sailed, so the bush family was great. one of the most memorable things i can remember about working with them was i was a new rookie standing my post outside on the south lawn of the white house, that's the side with the washington monument is. and all of a sudden i looked over and becomes president bush. he has a trait in his handful of food i'm in one of the stewards has another tripled from. i guess they were barbecuing. he walks over and and he betrays. i take the trace in sf and down in the flow cubbyhole. i was confused. i didn't understand what the president and the steward for bringing me food, the houston. the president said help yourself, and can see the rest of the guys on the south lawn. i was new and i said, well,
mr. president, we are not allowed to eat. the houston goes just follow his directions and it's fine, you know. so i did. i think of anyone else i called my coworkers are i took what i wanted and so took what i wanted and i put, move the winter over. i met the guy in future. i go back to mike posted the. this is a pic of this industry, my sergeant and lieutenant walker. they said you're not supposed to be done post. they told me. the president of the states toby to be. so as he was rating me, the houseman came out with a tray of water and gave me this really nice glass of ice water. so that was my kind of introduction to the white house. it was a good time. i worked with them for about a year and a half, two years. just after went to work there is kind of when the campaign spun off, and then we went to,
started coming around the kind of with metal detectors. that's one of the jobs that the secret service uniformed division. they do the metal detectors, k-9 sniffing dogs, the snipers on the roof on the counter sniper guys. don't wave at them will not wait back. the uniformed division did, like i said, metal detectors around the country, the world really. they also do the physical outer perimeter security of the white house. i loved it. it was great. then as the campaign went on and then eventually a new president came into town, things changed at the white house really. so at first, you heard all these rumors of president clinton's behavior in arkansas, and he tried to give it, you know, it is what it is either thing or, who believes it. as time went on it became pretty clear that they were not just rumors and it wasn't just tabloid. there were some strange things going on.
which ones you get a chance to read the book, myself and michael ryder did a pretty good job of getting you down just right. one of the things that also compelled me to write this book is when the scandal broke, and i'd be very careful how i talk about these, there' this reallyg people in the audience and part of the things that it ended up having to testify you can probably say were r-rated. we'll skip over some of that. one of the things that compelled me to write this book is when the scandal broke, the secret service, and i love the secret service, but the higher ups in the agency obvious they were trying to protect themselves. they can to push forward this group of young officers like myself, some junior agents. one senior guy that was an agent wasn't even on the detail at the timeframe that the starr investigation was looking to interview people and information
for. so in the position we were in you can't tell the secret service no. you can't really see anything to the investigators without their permission. it went on for months. the rules change how we could testify almost by the week. it was so confusing because we were all government employees, so there was no attorney-client privilege. tumblers that were supposedly representing me that nobody could not tell anybody. after a while a kind became clear some of things we saw that one part of the justice department's eating dinner at the same place. things get confusing for us, for the officers like myself and the agents that were involved in it. eventually i was subpoenaed six times, and we didn't actually fight the subpoenas. we kind of stalled them. as the signature strident in this thing called the protective function privilege which will be
similar to they can't compel a wife to testify against the husband type of thing. it went all the way up to the supreme court and it failed. so by that time we were like in the middle of the summer, and so eventually we had to go and testify. and by this time myself and the other officers and agents have probably given anywhere between three to 10 hours of testimony on camera. actually it's kind of funny that it is being taped by c-span because all that video is on c-span. so 100 c-span was taping this i thought, my old friend c-span. you can google my name in c-span and bring up i think three hours of deposition. but anyway, just so you know, i've never watched the whole thing. my coworker watched a couple times as we writing the book. excuse me, my cowriter. it was a tough time. when you put all these things together, the stress, that happen, and basically when you
look at it from my perspective, everything that happened to us was caused by the same bad behavior that we saw, and heard about in arkansas, and then we saw in washington, d.c. my fear is that if mrs. clinton becomes president we will see the same type of behavior. it concerns me for the country. that's what of the things that compelled me to write the book. the other one was, and this will be tough, excuse me just a second. the other one was i want my kids to know i did the right thing. so now if anybody has any questions, i would love to answer them. [inaudible] >> actually i don't know.
>> glad to meet you. >> thank you. >> do you think that writing the book makes it tougher for those who are in that position now protection because in order to do their job they have done a certain level of trust -- >> we can't do you. can you talk louder speak with this question is the fact i'm writing this book, is he going to make it harder for the secret service to do the job now, correct? >> doesn't also make it easier knowing that a future president would have greater accountability there people out there writing books? >> right. i hope that future presidents to have better accountability and he behaved better.
is me doing is going to make it harder on my former coworkers? it will. the word used, trust, is a big deal. i'm a big fan of trust, but the trust goes two ways. i realize that i'm defending myself with this, but trust goes two ways. i trusted that when this war president clinton and he would uphold the oath. i've got to tell you, it was pretty shady that he did. i think the things that he did and caused the things that happen to the rest of us, and the people that were also involved in it like the young intern that was involved in it, i think you can broke the trust with everybody. i'm not saying it completely makes it even, but that's just kind of the way it is. i do feel it will make it harder on them, but i also think the truth needs to be told. be honest with you, like where do i draw the line? i mean, if i was on a protection
detail and to protect the i was protecting accidentally killed somebody, you know, where do i draw the line? why not say anything? do we cover it up or come forward? i realize it's more drastic than what we're talking about here, but where do you draw the line? i could light a couple years ago when i thought about mrs. clinton becoming president and all the things i had seen. so this basically the best way i can answer it for you. thank you. can i go there first? >> were there any legal issues that you found going to the extent of detail in writing this? >> no. i'll tell you what a candidate. i didn't tell anybody i used to work with. i didn't tell anybody. when it was first presented to me and i decided to do it and that work with my cowriter, my wife new. when i actually for started it, i told, we had a meeting and i
said, listen, inform us of going to come back to you guys and i'm going to tell you that this is over. four months later we had about 100 pages, and by the time i was, i had made peace with the. i saw what was coming and i knew what i was going to be up against, but i thought it was worth doing. does that answer your question? okay. thank you. >> similar to the young lady's question up front, what sort of vetting process to the book like this have to go through because of all the navy s.e.a.l. books coming out being vetted by the pentagon? did your work have to be vetted by anyone? >> actually that's part of your question i left out and i will answer it right now. so here's the deal. back in secret service employees were not asked to sign confidentiality agreements. and i will tell you, as much as i try to tell myself that i
don't have a little bit of a chip on my shoulder about the whole thing that happened, my attitude was a little bit like this happen to me, this is what you guys, you know, the secret service and the protectee caused the other people. unarmored award about that. i didn't anybody review it. i just wrote the book and we edited it and we went forward with it. which is, you know, one of the reasons it's in the configuration that it is today. nobody got to say that wasn't, it couldn't be in there or not. i will tell you that my book is about 280 pages, roughly. that's half of what we wrote, roughly, and that's half of what happen. i left out a lot of stuff because it gives away too many, too much information about secret service procedures. and it inadvertently ends up kind of slamming some people that in hindsight, you know, i
don't want any more damage to come to them. so i left a lot of material out and a lot of incidents is out, but this is the true story as it happened, pretty much it's just the story about my life. it is mostly revolve around my time in the secret service. does that get a pretty good? thank you so much. >> first of all, i hope that the fact that you didn't share with more people, it still reads well. >> yeah. we had a pretty good vetting process. >> i wanted to thank you for your service not only in the secret service but for the american principles. >> thank you. >> that you are sharing. not only by writing the book but also, you know, america's family values are here, and i'm not politically motivated either. i think many americans are,
those of us who are not want the best person for the job, don't get that kind of representation. so i like the fact that you are putting yourself in a very difficult position. >> thank you. >> for a lot of reasons. >> thank you very much. i appreciate that. another question? >> you may have covered this earlier. i came in a little league. how many years actually did usurp? >> i was 29 years with the federal government, for with the air force, 12 with the secret service uniformed division at the white house. >> when did you start? >> 1991. at a transferred from the secret service uniformed division to the air marshals in 2003. >> so then you were with george bush on his trip to asia? >> no. actually it's funny. in the secret service i didn't do much traveled overseas. when i went to the air marshal service i saw more overseas than
i could, that i ever thought i'd ever want to see. my 13 just been air marshals i flew over 4 million air miles. so yeah, i'm exhausted. [inaudible] >> that's right. it's funny you should say that. we would complain about we get a break, and with it what don't you know about the title air marshal? next question. >> could you explain what the difference is between the uniform secret service and the agency to protect the president? >> absolutely. >> i thought the uniform secret service were the ones who protected the physical property. >> thank you. so the secret service is a pretty good-sized agency and they have the ages basically run the agency. they are referred to inside the government, we refer to the secret service agents as 1811. that's code for a pay scale.
the uniformed division officers that work, excuse me, the secret service agents are also federal investigators. their training is little different, although more extensive. when you go into the uniform division you are train more like a police officer. in a special training to protect the white house. so the main job of secret service agents who are protecting depression and the first family, and they have a lot of other protection details they do today. when i started in 1991, they had six protection details. what i left in 2003 they had 28. you would think that they would expand the numbers of agents and officers accordingly, and they don't. after a couple of years you kind of get the impression that they need a thousand people to do something, they will hire 500 work those 500 into the ground just about. but i will tell you that it's addictive. winchester working there in the secret service and at the white house, as tough as it is and as
many issues as i had, it was a good place to work. but the uniformed division of the secret service also does a bomb sniffing dog, counter -- could imagine that already? okay. so that's pretty much the difference. anybody else? >> have you or anybody, your publisher or anyone else on your side are getting directly or indirectly from the clinton side about -- >> oh, yeah. yeah. if there were ever any fond feelings between them and me, i have pretty much sunk the ship. i mean, they first tried, and this is kind of, the book goes into this. they basically, they kind of unleashed their clinton machine on me, so to speak. which i knew i was getting into that. the first thing to do is try to say as they discredit me. he was nobody.
the uniform division is not allowed to do anything. if that were true why was i subpoenaed six times? i would have loved to have had that argument when it was happening. this uniform division of the secret service visitor integral important part of the protection of the first family. but they are trying to discredit me, which i understand. and then when that didn't work so well, then it was that i made it all up. and then when they started looking into that and we started putting out my information about my history with th the secret service, then they realized they couldn't really say that you do. so i'm not really sure what it's going to be tomorrow, but i do know that i've been kind of blacklisted from the regular tv channels. nobody, we had a couple things scheduled, and all of a sudden they kind of in a way. so we will see what happens. it's not like, you know, i've had a lot of tv exposure in the
last couple days and radio exposure, and it's been great. i appreciate all of it but clearly they are trying to squash my message. and my message is that this is a story about my life. it's important for everybody to hear it, and the message also is that mrs. clinton, in my bones i tell you, in my observations she's not the person she want to be -- we want to be president spent did george stephanopoulos ever called for an envious because no. that's funny thing. when they were trying to say i wawas aware of us can i say to somebody all you have to do is talk to george stephanopoulos. he walked by me every day. i saw them every day. i was actually friends with this assistance. office, working for us. they were all very nice people. don't get the impression because of this book that i despise the clintons or i despise the democrats wanted administration. i don't. there's people there that i can
talk about leon panetta in my book. that was a guy that i wish would have run for president. there were other people there. i don't despise george stephanopoulos be the. i thought he was a decent guy. i thought he was a very intelligent guy. i just didn't agree with his political leanings. but when you work for the secret service, i'm talking politics not because i'm out and about this book, but back then the american public elected to protect the and we protected him. i didn't really get wrapped up in politics except for, and i tell you one quick story. when president clinton was going to sign the assault weapons ban and i was working that night, and into doubt the oval office and abroad all the cameras in, equipment like this, and the staff was in the end they're all excited, and the chief of staff walked up to me and said come on in, you can watch and sign. unlike know, good. thank you. you said, it's all right.
>> it's not really appropriate for me to go into. i had to stand out here. >> it will be all right spent it's not really my cup of tea. >> he goes okay. unit, he said i understand. he didn't make a big deal about it and it went in and they signed the bill and i stood outside and did my job. any other questions? or another question? >> would you be willing to or would you care to be interviewed on some less prominent channel? >> yeah. i mean, it's all kind of up to my publicist and stuff. everything goes through them. but sure, i don't have any problem with that. here's what i told them. i'm not afraid to be challenged. it's a little bit different. it's funny, you know, i can all but about tv. i started two days ago. but i liked it. the more combative it gets, like i had a radio show with don imus
today, he got a little combative and elected. the crazier it got the funny i thought it was. i do mind being asked tough questions. i knew that was going to be something i have to do. i'm okay with that. thank you. yes, sir. >> i know that it's not possible but if bill clinton would run again for president, would you still be writing this book? >> that's a good question. i'm not bush on how to answer that. to be honest, i guess i'd have to say no, i guess. ..
>> if you don't know, if you are not as old as i am at the time, and don't know what happened, it was bizarre. if you have my book on the audio and the kids are in the car be careful. yes, ma'am? [inaudible question] >> you know, i am not really sure about that. what i do know about that is after john kennedy hired his brother as attorney i think there was a rule change. i am not sure it is possible to hire him.
but i am no lawyer and i don't even have a job right now. anybody else? >> i haven't read your book but do you touch upon some of that which is brushed upon by "the wall street journal" and disappeared but there were different things that i personal have seen as an american. like with the health care plan and like trying to make money on the stockmarket based on the access to information. do you touch upon that? >> i don't. >> it is hard to get your hands on that stuff. >> i don't because i was writing about what happened as far as it went with my life. how it happened to me, how it involved the people i worked with and what i witnessed. i was trying to write what happened in the first verse and
what i experienced. i have heard all those stories and i am not sure there is one one i haven't heard including the latest ones. but yeah, some of that stuff is not therein. but there is stuff i am sure there is stuff in there how about how many pooem and it isn't all negative. i tell funny stories from a police sense of humor. so, that will be something new for you that you haven't seen before. yes, sir? >> this is going to be like a hypothesis. but with what broke with lynch and clinton meeting in phoenix, what is the likelihood of that being the chance. >> i am so glad you asked that. if first thing i thought when i
heard that was it fell right into the cycle of what i refer to as the clinton machine. i will give you another example. everybody remembers when clinton started running and told a story about bosnia and talked about the fire she saw getting off the plane. everybody new that was hog wash. so to go back to what you said when i heard that president clinton's plane happened to be at the same airport and a couple spots over from the attorney gener general's plane at the same airport the same thing rang true in my mind. this is what happened, or my hypothesis of what happened, i
think she purposely went there. i refer to this years ago going through the investigation for the lewinski scandal. the was soft interrogation. my office in the training center and the coworker who was working in the west wing called me and said you are lucky you are out there. the deputy chief of the white house called him up and said listen, i know you have given testimony but they want to ask you two things. go to your post, we will relieve you, walk down to the courthouse and come back. he did and when he came back to the west wing lobby where he worked the secretary said brenda was looking for you and he
laughed like okay and then a couple minutes later bill clinton walked through the one door and said there you are. and talked to him asking him how his family was. he called me up and it was like he was telling me i know you were down there testifying on me. and when you take that and you go back and listen to all of the things we heard when the clinton's were first running it fits right into this. yes, i think that is not random. i think we planned it. that is my opinion and what it looks like to me. yeah, sure. yes, sir? >> with all your training --
[inaudible question] >> is there something you can say flat out she is not telling the truth. >> they asked about bill clinton and you could tell when he was lying because he bit his lip. not something i every saw. like she has a body language telling me she is lying. any time she said anything i took question with it to be honest. that is from experience. they seem to become more hostile with people that work there. we had short conversations and things were fine.
i saw people like me getting angry and she stopped talking and in public she is very good at not ever trying to look angry. i am not sure she pulls it off but i see things some people won't because i am used to seeing them so much and not in front of the tv camera. so... yes, ma'am? >> do you have any insight into suicide of vince foster? >> so, i saw mr. foster a couple times when he worked there. i hit this in the book. my first impression was i never saw somebody who didn't want to be there more than he didn't want to be there. he looked so unhappy there.
i don't have inside information. i will tell you it was sad and very odd. just like normal clinton behavior, and i talk a little bit about this into book, an soon as the fbi reported this he was found dead, the uniform division officer in the west wing of his office was requested there. we did and the officer that posted there is officer hank o'neill. i am saying his name because hank o'neill was subpoenaed during the investigation of foster's suicide. he was outside the office, staff members of clinton tried to come in and take the files and clean out the office and hank tried to repel them but ended upta takin
the information on what they took. it is bad enough this man's taking his life and then it turns into a huge investigation and scandal. a lot of people that worked there came to the conclusion you could not make this up or write. as sad as it was when some of those scandals happened it was almost comical because you could see what was going to happen by their previous behavior. yes, sir? >> do you believe there is any shred of possibility hillary clinton will be indicted? >> not after the other day, i don't think there is. yeah, i do because listen, obviously i am concerned about the way our government functions right now. so you know, again, you can fold that into the reasons i was comp comp compelled to write the book.
i will tell you that i think the fbi is straight up and i think th they will do the right thing. whether or not the attorney general acts on those i could not tell you. i am concepticskeptical. we will see what happens. hope for the best. anybody? yes, sir? >> do you expect more former secret service employees to come out after you? >> no, i don't. i think after the beating i am taking and the criticism i don't think you will see it. and i will tell you that a lot of the people i used to work with. i wasn't a big social media fan but four months ago we were getting close to releasing the book and j started getting involved in social media.
i had my kids help me, of course. so when i got on facebook all of a sudden i found one person i knew from when i used to work at the white house and all of a sudden there were 50. i have gotten some very positive feedback which i am very grateful for. so, you know, not everybody is on the lynch-gary bandwagon. >> do you think bill clinton and l loretta lynch talked about the grandchildren? >> he was former president of the united states and he knows a lot of people and does a lot of favors for him and people do a lot of favors for him. i think he can find out anything he wants. this is just the way i see it.
this is my hypothesis. i cannot prove any of but it is worth discussing. think about this. if i was -- during the investigation of the lewinski thing, if they caught me or a coworker discussing what was going on with somebody they didn't approve? who knows. conflict of interest is putting it lightly. anybody? the first thing my son said when i was explaining to him and i am trying to be delicate about these things and he said dad,
did you do something wrong and i said no, not really. you are missing the point. they didn't ask many questions. i think they were intimidated about the whole thing. they read all of the stuff and my wife and i told them stories about how myself and the other people were threatened with arrest and that kind of thing. so... they didn't have too many questions. this is one thing i did and this kind of puts everything together. so when you talk to your kids about something that happened to you at work and you are a police officer and then you have to tell them not to google it because you are afraid it might go to a porn site that is significant thing. i told my kids if you are at school and want to know more what happened with us don't go on with -- on the web. that can actually happen
apparently. yes, ma'am? [inaudible question] >> i think it is a very real problem. i talk about how i am afraid it is coming my way. you can certainly me what happened over the last ten years and certainly over the last eight years and again this is gary's personal observations. i will like in some ways our government is almost sympathetic to these terrorist groups or at least don't seem to go after them. it is like they trying to give them time to gain ground. i meant not a former navy seal, just a police officer, but i
have been trained back in anti-terrorism my whole life. it started with terrorists that drive cars into buildings and now it has escalated into ways hard to new jersimagine. we need to take precautions as individuals to protect ourselves. yeah? [inaudible question] >> i made it this long so i am feeling good tonight. here is the difference. i shouldn't say the difference but here is my theory. my true life story is damaging to them but if i so much as broke a toe at this point i would get blamed. i hope they will weather the storm is everybody's life goes on. but it is worth the risk.
i want my story told and people to know what the truth is. thank you. >> booktv is on twitter and facebook. we want to hear from you. tweet us twitter.com/booktv or post a comment on our facebook page: facebook.com/booktv. >> you are watching booktv on c-span2. joining us from chicago and publisher is ron charles. what do you do for a living? >> i assign most of the daily reviews in the "washington post" and write my own once a week. we review 20 book as week. and get aubt 150 -- about.
>> why isn't there a book festival? >> there is a stand alone book festival online but we decided to spread them out through the paper to see if we could find more readers. seemed like a disaster at the time to me but i had to admit we do in fact have more readers for book reviews now. we put them in places people read more. we are in there every day in style, in the weekend art section, outlook every sunday. people see our reviews more. >> what kind of books do you review? >> i tend to review only literary fiction but we do political books, science, history, biography, arts coverage on sunday, books about history of film and theater.